What is a good price to charge an artist for help in Marketing?

[Fiona Henzie]

Without getting into too much discussion on this one I would like to ask emerging professional and famous artists "How much is a good price to charge and what is the best way to charge it?' (and anyone else who may like to comment)

As an artist myself, I know the answer is 'as little as possible!!' :0) but as a person who also helps artists market their work it will be helpful to get your ideas of what will work/works for you - wherever you are in the world.

Since I have a business to run I have to charge and I understand that the value will lie in what you receive back therefore I'm asking this in an almost lighthearted way! I'll be pleased to hear from you if you have any ideas on this when you have the time! cheers, Fiona

[Mona Youssef]

Dear Fiona,

Thank you for opening such question for discussion. This proves that you care, understanding, counting the cost before building your tower and you want to be fair. The result of course, success for all.

I would suggest that you give your proposal in details, point out why artists need it, to where it would take them and add your living costs. Then decide how much the charge can be. Should your proposal meets the needs of all artists or some, you will at least have a good start.

It is only people who run after the big fast capitals, they fail as fast. But who that builds a project on a solid and wise decision, will continue successfully and this what I wish you.

Kind regards,

Mona

[Fiona Henzie]

Mona I have a bit of a problem as a business woman and I seem to give everything for free (this makes me a terrible BUSINESS woman) and a nice person (haha) but I am hardenng up!!

Thanks for your comments, they are really appreciated.
Have a great week and speak soon.

PS (to all who read this) If I don't reply it is simply that I am really busy but will come back asap!

[Mona Youssef]

Dear Fiona,

I totally understand what you are saying and why you feel that way. Although, life was given to us for free but people did not make it for free when you need bread on the table. So, you definitely, have to toughen up and establish your business as business and not as charities organization.

You can always contribute for charities when you feel like, when you can and to whom is worth your contribution. Many charities organizations, although, they are capable of collecting millions of dollars but actually, people whom they collect for, hardly received any of that collections. So please just keep that in mind. Having confidence in what yo do is a plus.

It is simply as that YOU NEED TO MAKE LIVING SO IS EVERY ONE.

I would suggest that you take a business course to do the job for you!

Best wishes

Mona

[Deborah J. Boyd]

This is a loaded question because there are so many varieties of marketing. Keep in mind that marketing is all about how many people the advertising can reach and what the quality of those people are to what is being marketed.
Affiliate marketing can be totally free. This is where you place an ad on the website of someone and place their ad on your wbsite or blog. TV advertising is the most expensive. As an artist I would advise you to shop around for a good marketing company that can advise you of the cost of methods for free before you have to decide.

[Mona Youssef]

Thank you Deborah for sharing this conversation with us and for the practical advices. Artists, in general, spend so much on advertising and by the time they sale a piece of artwork, they have already spent more that its price. Do you know of any good marketing company who has methods of advertising for free!

I am finding that what is working well, so far, and free of charge, is networking with our fellow artists and exchanging information with them. Of course this takes time and sincerity on our parts to one another. What do you think!

Regards,

Mona

[Deborah J. Boyd]

NING is a free platform and anyone can start a web site free. So an artist can do their own web site or they could discover other artists and invite them to the web site.
Now then you get to why people visit a web site.
Art is a complicated subject. There is realistic art that everyone can tell what it is as soon as they look at it, like Norman Rockwell. Then there is impressionist and modern whcih sometimes require interpretation and usually have a more limited audience.
Affiliate advertising would work if you were to contact suppliers of artists, paint, canvas, brushes. Another suggestion would be a theme.
A city might be a theme as in "artists of Paris today" or subjects. "art for children", "barns of New England". Advertising is simply a way of attracting people to a location. My opinion is that there are really very few people who understand art that is not immediately visible. Kinkaid makes sceens of the type you might see above the sofa of a working class family. Nice outdoor sceens of pretty cabins or deer. Very generic. Sold as prints they probably go for as little as $40 a piece but he is a millionaire because for every one wealthy art coneseure(sp) there are a thousand average people who don't know a thing about abstract art. The typical artwork on Hallmark cards isn't all that original but the artists that do that are probably not starving.
If you chose to go with a charity you need to add 15% over the price you would normally charge for the work and donate that to the charity.

[Niall Fairhead]

Hello Fiona

Perhaps an Art Dealer should not be putting pen to paper on this question but I do have views on it all.

In my experience one of the worst things to do in life is to charge too little. Once you do this your valuable life experience and the great contribution you can make are valued at nought - or not much. If you fall into that trap you will in effect devalue what you do.

You also need to consider what a huge difference charging just a little more can make to your “Bottom Line” on the deal. In anything you do you have fixed and variable costs - like phone calls, transport, postage et al. For every penny you charge above these fixed and variable costs you will tend to add to your profit. If those fixed and variable costs are high and the extra you charge on top is small then you may be working hard for not much. An analysis of these factors is important. If you do not make enough money you have to ask if you should be doing it at all. If you are a philanthropist it is fine. If you have a living to earn...... perhaps you should think again.

Self respect and a feelings of self worth are part of this equation also. If you charge little for all the knowledge and experience that you have won in life then you, in effect, value yourself lowly. This is not good for your own morale or self respect and you should try to avoid it. The way you regard yourself and your expertise is very, very important.

In my view for an exercise like this you need to achieve a suitable reward for yourself and if this cannot be achieved consider what you are not doing right. Examples of this might be:

1) Selling the service to the right buyer (selling to an impecunious artist may be meritorious but not financially rewarding)

2) Marketing to the wrong marketplace (artists in different locations and genres may make more money and be able to pay you more). Look for richer artists you can help perhaps?

3) Content: Are you marketing the right product? Does the content aspect of your proposal match up to the expectations of the buyers? If not could or should this be changed or modified to sell what you do better? Have you marketed the right package? Would a different package sell for more?

4) Do you give “Case Studies” of what you have achieved for others and how your advice has benefited them? An analysis of this sort can be helpful both for the client and for yourself in answering possible “objections” to your initial proposals.

Apologies if I have gone on too much or told you what you already know. However the subject is multifaceted and needs considerations from a large number of angles. Constantly I rethink my own business along similar lines. If I sell my stock too cheaply I will not achieve what I need to achieve. I need a certain reward for what I have done successfully and professionally ..... and so do you!

Lastly I would say if you have to give a discount/low opener price make very sure that the buyer knows this is a one-off/temporary taster done to foster trust and good relations only. You are an experience professional .... your services are valuable! Never be afraid to lose a deal on price - unless, of course, you are desparate for the money (and then different rules apply)

regards

Niall

[Mona Youssef]

Hello Niall,

Thank you so much for your valuable comments. I could not agree more with everything you have mentioned and this is exactly my continues principle in selling my artwork. I would prefer to give it as a gift, free of charge, rather than reducing my prices. I would also, prefer to live humbly than just selling my artwork for any price offered. In fact, I never wait for an offer because I have my prices set already. Artists have to know the value of what their own hard work is worth of. Can’t tell, then self-research is needed and more knowledge is required to know how the market works and what kind of artwork would sales for, why, when and where etc. Years of experiences, art history, art rewards and recognitions are all have effect on the price.

This is just to relate a brief experience I had when was in Florence Biennale. An art dealer/collector had asked me for the prices of my three paintings were there. Upon hearing it, he said “That is not bad”. Yet, he wanted to reduce the price still, so that he can make money. I told him “Sorry I do not negotiate my prices”. He said” How can I make money!” I replied” I am sure that you can sale them for at least triple the price” He looked at me with more respect for knowing the values of my artwork. Then he said that he would come back after consulting with his partners. Surely enough, he came back DAILY, loving the paintings but still wishing that I might change my mind. I told him that I was not desperate to sale my artwork. Then he offered to buy the three paintings educing 1000 Euro of each. My principle remained the same, no negotiation. Then he brought another partner, looked at my paintings and said ”Yaah, nice, actually beautiful work but snow dose not sale in Italy”. I immediately replied” Art is art whether the subject is snow or flowers and they were Italians who took my hundreds of post cards of those three paintings and could not take their eyes off my paintings”. Then he said” You are not known yet, I can make you publicity then sale your work for more” I replied” I am known but you never heard of me as I’ve never heard of you, so I would suggest that you visit my website and see if I am known enough in your eyes” At this moment, he knew that I am very well aware of the value of my artwork, have my dignity, self-respect, know the value of my artwork and what art means to me and to all.

With my respect to all art dealers for their hard work, trying to put down the artwork of an artist or minimize the value of its subject is not a thoughtful technique. As you have mentioned Niall, we need to cover all the expense involved and add profits to make living. Otherwise, let us just work get behind any desk in an office entering data and pay the rent. Selling artwork in international exhibition cost a lot to take there and pay all the travel expenses plus the expensive exhibition fees etc. Can collectors understand what artists have to go through to sale their artwork and how much it cost. I do not mean only the cost of the art materials, but we are self-employed, pay everything and have no vacation or sick days etc. We spend life-time learning and producing artwork.

If people are only looking for artwork to only decorate their homes or match the color of their sofa, then they can simply go to Wall Mart and buy the biggest print with a big frame for few dollars. But they have to keep in mind that this same artwork was printed by thousands of prints where acutely prints should be limited number only. Well this another subject that has no place here now.

So Niall, I would add my voice to yours, not to sing, but to say” Artists need a certain reward for what they have done successfully and professionally all their lives”

All the best

Mona

[Fiona Henzie]

Niall - How wonderful to see you on here ... (I've also just received your new email address so thanks for that).

..and thanks for 'going on' too much, I really appreciate your thoughts on this .. in fact thanks to all of your comments ... I have been slightly 'out of the loop' lately - I am opening a small Gallery - I have decided to take the plunge - so things have been hectic.

I hope I can reply back to you all soon!! Famous last words!

I really need the Gallery to separate my home life from my business life ....I'm sure many of you will understand this. Thank you Mona, Deborah, Amanda and Hans I really appreciate all your comments..

for now
best wishes
Fiona

[Amanda]

Hello Fiona!
Ah since you are opening a gallery... that is a different matter.
You can ask for commission rate for sellign or you can charge them $20 per art piece to be hung in your gallery per month etc.
Some galleries here does it that way.
I wish you all the best!!!!
Amanda

[Hans Mertens]

Hello Fiona,

I completely agree with Mona Youssef about art-prices.
Meaning this: Being an artist for 21 years now, I learned how to take yourself seriously.

I give you an example: If people want to buy something exclusive and they see it's cheap they don't want it anymore, but when it's expensive or of a certain value they will buy it ....!~

Best regards from Holland,

Hans Mertens
www.hansmertens.nl
"Contrast"

[Amanda]

Hello Fiona,
As an artist I would love to be helped in the marketing of my art works and I know that if I find a fantastic marketeer, my art can go places. Probably like most emerging and mid life artist, I can not afford to pay anyone to do my marketing for me so I am doing it myself which results in a slower process of meeting my goals.

Since I am an artist who have just returned to employment to supplement her art practice (I was self employed for 30 months to establish myself again as an artist in a new country) I will give you my viewpoint as an artist in my status okay?
I will give you give you some figures would be markeeters and rep have offered me when they saw my art and my desire to go on.

USD $ 5000 upfront fees.
USD $ 1000 per hour by another Artist who also saw herself as an Art consultant.
USD $ 9000 plus space to hang a few of my art work in their galleries.

None of these peopple got my business because I could not afford them and I felt they did not understand us artists (most artists who have not reached star status have little money to spare). I felt they were more interested in pocketing money than caring for me and understanding my needs.

What would I pay to get proper marketing help...?
Well I would rather someone established with the right know how and contacts who can afford to market me before being paid and then chase for their own commissions. I have been told these are the right Art Rep I need.
But then if I can't find these powerful people and have to pay someone to help me... I still need to know the person can get the job done because at this point in my career, I have no spare money to give away. (My mortgage in New Zealand takes up almost all my pay)
SO I guess I would only be able to pay NZD $ 50 a fortnight for starters if someone offers to promote my works and agree on a percentage of sale done. I wished i can offer a hgher basic retainer but most people in my situatiof Ic ould afford to, I would pay more but then many artists (even garduates) can't even afford a few cups of coffee! So I guess I am doing better.
So far I have paid some people with my paintings ... They happened to love my works and believe that I will become an established artist someday Internationally.
I give money when I can afford to which is not often.
But when I can afford to, I have paid publiciststs, writers, helpers up to 40% of my own earnings which was about $ 1000 for a one off deal. I love making people who help me happy with me. I was abloe to offer them that amount because I got the deal and I knew how much I was going to make.
I hope to make more people happy in future!

Hope this helps even if a little.
Amanda